From the Runway to the Board Room: Owning a Size-Inclusive Clothing Label

Plus size vs. size-inclusive, what's the difference, and why is this distinction so important? In this episode of WAIR Chats, we interview Taylor Long, Founder, and CEO of Nomads Swimwear, on the intricacies of apparel sizing, launching a D2C apparel brand during the pandemic, and a shared love of true crime documentaries.

Connect with our guest

Nomads Swimwear

Website:

https://nomadsswimwear.com/

Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/nomadsswimwear

LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/company/nomads-swimwear/

Transcript

Greg: Welcome to the WAIR Chats podcast series, where we dive into conversations surrounding all facets of eCommerce and the people working to make it a more sustainable and productive industry for all.

My name is Greg Moore. I'm the Founder and CEO of WAIR and your host for today's podcast. Size inclusivity has always been a prevalent topic within the world of fashion. Yet the industry has been slow to adapt to the body shapes of today's consumers. Join us as we talk with Taylor Long, who went from a plus-size fashion model to CEO and Founder of Nomads Swimwear, a size-inclusive swimwear line where all body shapes are celebrated.

Greg: Hey, everybody, my name is Greg Moore. I'm the CEO and Co-Founder of WAIR. And I'm here with Taylor Long today, who is the CEO and Co-Founder... or Founder...

‍Taylor: Founder, yes.

Greg: ...of Nomads. Taylor, how are you?

Taylor: I'm doing well. Happy to be here.

Greg: Well, thanks for joining us today. I know we started working together a while ago now. And we have absolutely loved following Nomad's story, which is inherently your story. So, I was hoping we could start off and just telling me a bit more about yourself and how you came to the journey of launching your own brand.

Taylor: For sure. So, as you mentioned, I'm Taylor Long, the Founder, designer, and CEO of Nomads Swimwear. It's really interesting. The story of Nomads is one that is super organic. I studied design at the University of Cincinnati. During my time there, I started plus-size modeling and was able to see, through my modeling work, how, frankly, abysmal the plus-size swimwear market is. I've worked for clients like Target, Selma, and Kohl's today with you. And it was just being on set and being specifically put into swimwear that I myself could not imagine going into a store and buying really kind of propelled me to research that a bit more and really see what the rest of the market was looking like. Were there really any cool brands that were creating not just plus-size swimwear but size-inclusive swimwear overall? That was something that I would like. And I really didn't see anything.

So, I, for my senior capstone collection, did Nomads. That, essentially, was my entire project and collection. And it was throughout that process that I was getting a lot of feedback from peers and friends that were like, "Hey, if you were to make this, I would buy it." And I'm like, "Okay, I don't really know if I fully know all that goes into that." But I started researching and found factories before I even graduated, and then went into development, probably two months after graduation, and then launched the following year mid-COVID in July of 2020.

Greg: That had to be a trip.

Taylor: Yes, haha.

Greg: Did that help? Like, and when I say help, did it give you the time to sort of like build your business chops? Because you have a lot of design chops at the time. But the business side of it, it sounds like it was pretty new for you. So, you kind of had to learn a whole bunch of that. That can be the time to do.

Taylor: It did a little bit, I'll say. Like, even still, to this day, there are a lot of things I learned in the moment. And, I luckily am a quick learner, so that helps. But it was interesting because I think, especially when you go into it with a design background, that's so much of what you're focused on. And even to this day, there are still things that are kind of out of my wheelhouse that I gladly will let someone else help me with when I'm not well versed. But I will say I think in terms of timing, that was helpful because initially, we were supposed to launch in March of that year. And had that happened sooner than it was supposed to, who's to say we'd even still be here today if we had launched...

Greg: Yeah.

Taylor: ... on the onset of COVID? So, timing-wise, that actually worked out quite well. But it definitely was not ideal.

Greg: No, that makes sense. It's funny because I run WAIR, and then the other business we have is called Fit3D. And during the COVID time, I mean, it just slammed Fit3D, right? I mean, everything is just closed.

Taylor: Yeah.

Greg: But it did really force us to kind of pull back and really understand, what are the key drivers of the business such that we can optimize on those? And then, when COVID began finally easing a little bit, we started then be able to lean into those optimized practices. And it's been great since then, which is really cool. Certainly forcing function in a sense.

Very cool. And then so, starting an eCommerce business is like you have the design side of things. You had a lot of the factory setup. You knew you had a vision behind it, which I think is really cool. I see a lot of entrepreneurs now that really struggle with that; they're like, "I want to start a business," but not necessarily vision on it. What were some of the things when you were getting off the ground driving the DTC commerce side that kind of threw you for a loop, and maybe some things you didn't expect in that sense?

Taylor: I'm very observant, almost to a fault. So, in creating Nomads and the site, specifically like, I was doing a lot of just research on my own just to see... and I think that's not, it's not unique, but just seeing what other brands do, what I thought they did well, what I maybe didn't understand why they chose to go to a certain way. But I think understanding the customer journey and how important that is, especially on a site, site speed, all those things, it's not something as a consumer that you're necessarily looking at, but then looking at it from a business owner perspective, it kind of put everything into a whole new lens. So, I think really figuring that out and figuring out what worked best for us.

And some of those things that I kind of stumbled upon that I was glad that I integrated early on was the ability for our customer to see our suits on four different sizes. Because I think, a lot of businesses, especially ones that maybe are... they're size inclusive, but maybe they don't tout that, or that's not something they're really known for, they will primarily show their stuff sometimes only on straight-sized models, sometimes maybe it is one plus-size model. But there are so many things in between that. There's mid-size. There's on the larger end of plus that you don't often see. So, that was something that I'm really glad that I integrated early on because I think it allowed more customers to be able to see themselves represented.

And then also, too, I think there are a lot of brands, especially more like designer swimwear brands, that solely rely on a size chart. And it's so interesting. As someone who has a tape measure on hand, it's nothing for me to pull it out and go like measure myself, but the average consumer doesn't. So, I think realizing how kind of fed up, from what I have read, customers are with like traditional size charts was very eye-opening for me because it wasn't something that ever bothered me. So, when you guys from WAIR reached out, it was kind of a perfect opportunity. Because that was one of the things that we were dealing with the most was the number of returns or exchanges. And so, trying to cut down on that was WAIR essentially helped so much in doing so.

‍Greg: Awesome. Well, thanks for the beach ball setup right there. That was great.

Taylor: Yeah, haha.

Greg: No, but leaning into the sizing a little bit. I mean, we work with a lot of brands. And sizing inclusivity is a really big thing. And what we've seen, actually, and this is kind of sad, is a lot of the larger brands that are out there will use jump sizing, right? So, they'll have like small, medium, large, they'll have a consistent grade set, which is like they all grow by denaturation after 2 inches, right? And then all of a sudden, you get to the inclusive sizes, the plus sizes, and they'll kind of like skip the size in between there. And I don't think you do that. I think you keep it pretty consistent.

Taylor: We don't.

Greg: Can you talk to me a little bit about how you thought about that process?

Greg: Yeah. So, it's interesting, when I was doing my research to see... because that was one of the questions I had because I haven't always been plus-size. Primarily, I was kind of on the larger end of straight-size. I could always fit like an XL. But as I've gotten older, I've gradually gotten into more of the plus to be able to see things for myself. But at the time, I wasn't. And so, it was... I think it was Good American that I saw that really leaned into kind of that mid-size. They didn't go from like an XL to a 2X like there was really that important... I'm trying to think because their sizing is a little bit different. They do like 1, 2, and so on.

Greg: Right.

Taylor: But it was something that they had done that I was like, "Okay, that's really interesting." And then the more research I did into it, the more I saw that 14-16 is often really left out of the conversation because they're not quite small enough to fit into an XL, but they're definitely not big enough to fit into a 2X. So, I was very adamant about doing like our straight sizes are extra small to XL, and then that XL is kind of in between, and then we go into plus, all the way up to 2X, 3X, 4X, 5X. But we started with small to 4X, which, even as a smaller brand, still is a really vast size range. But after that first collection, we then extended to extra small to 5X.

Greg: Okay.

Taylor: So, it's pretty wild to carry that many sizes. Luckily, I haven't run into a lot of pushback from factories. Like, rarely ever are we... from the different factories that I have already used since we launched, I think there's only been one 1 of the three that do different pricing for like plus sizes versus straight sizes, which has been good. But yeah, so it's very intentional to have that vast of a size range and then include that kind of in-between the size in there. Because I do think that is something that's often overlooked. And it's unfortunate because they're missing a whole bunch of potential customers.

Greg: Yeah. You said so perfectly, but you can sort of optimize to reduce the SKU count. But at the same time, you end up reducing customer loyalty because your fits are not as good for a vast majority of people that fit into that sort of bridge. And so, I just love the fact that you leaned into that. And instead of going kind of like with the same trend that everybody else goes through, it's like, "No, like, these people deserve to be served. And I'm going to create a product that's going to serve." I just think it's really cool. I love getting into like entrepreneurs that understand that the value proposition can be different.

Taylor: Well, and I think another important point that I just realized I didn't mention too. I was super adamant about making sure our stuff was true to size. I think, for the plus consumer specifically, so often, brands will say that they carry plus, but their plus sizes aren't graded for plus. It's the standard one and a half, 2 inches between sizes. And that's one of the top complaints I see amongst, even just influencers who are talking about brands that have launched plus and just different things. It's like, so often, brands will say they go up to a 3X, and their 3X is a 14. And it's like, "Well, no, you really don't. Those don't correlate." So, making sure that our stuff is as true to size as possible.

And I think one of the main reasons that it is because I am our sample size. And starting out, that was an XL. Now I'm more of a 1X. But I think starting there, as opposed to starting at an extra small to small and then trying to get all the way to plus, it was a lot easier to go down and up than to go all the way up. So, I think that's something that is made our sizing super true to size and something that we get complimented on the most from customers.

Greg: That's awesome. So, going back a little bit, you talked about using a tape measure, right?

Taylor: Yeah.

Greg: And as a designer, of course, you're going to have a tape measure. Do you find that people can measure their bodies appropriately, like accurately, if they are not used to anthropometrics or tape measuring their own bodies?

Taylor: Probably not, no. I think everybody's definition of like where things fit on their body, like a person is going to think that their waist maybe is a little bit lower or higher. I'm sure there are not a ton of people that know the exact places that you're supposed to be looking. And I have seen that a lot of sites have a little sketch or example with a picture. But I still think there's room for error.

Greg: Yeah.

Taylor: So, are they going to get that most accurate sizing based on their measurements? Probably not.

‍Greg: And it's exactly like you said. Like, if I were to measure my waist, if I go an inch down or an inch up, what is the appropriate size? It's an entirely different measurement, right? So, it's really interesting in that sense. But you mentioned you guys installed WAIR, and it's been absolutely great to work with you. So, I know Troy and our team just love it. What were some of the reasons? You talked about like you just were getting returns or getting exchanges, and you're like, "This is all size-related. I've gotta solve this problem." But, like, what were some of the other reasons that you thought WAIR would be the right fit for your business as it was growing?

Taylor: Eliminating some of those steps that the customer would have to go through to figure out their size. Like, instead of them having to jump from the product page to then going to a size guide page was one of the reasons being able to have WAIR on the product page was a very important point for me. Because it was one less click that the customer was going to do, and we could potentially mitigate losing them throughout their journey. That was huge. But I think, too, the quality of brands that you guys have, that you all were able to show, I was like, "Oh, okay." But then, for it to be something that, even as a small business, I could afford to do. Because I think in showing those brands, initially, I was like, "There's no way that I can work this into the budget," or anything like that. But that was a huge selling point for me, too, in that it was still something that was attainable. But you guys working with such established brands made us look a lot more established, probably than we are currently. It's just it's different. But seeing like a Vineyard Vines or something like that. It really was cool to see, but also just a testament to you guys that you guys are able to keep it affordable and are open to working with small businesses. That was huge.

Greg: Totally. One of the things we discussed really early is that we set on this journey to solve the problem, right? Not just solve the problem for the people with the biggest pockets. And so, when we did that, we spent a tremendous amount of time on pricing, just making sure that there was direct ROI associated with every dollar that we got back so that everybody can then afford it, right? And the tagline that we really lean into is like we shouldn't even really hit an expense line. Like, it should just be a piece of the additional profits that we're for the brand.

Taylor: Right.

Greg: So, it's great to hear that it was definitely affordable in that sense, right?

Taylor: Yeah.

Greg: As you've leaned into some of the data on WAIR, how's it affected the business from either a time to support or original returns process, in a sense?

Taylor: It's cut down tremendously on time because we're still so small that I'm still answering chats, and those go to my phone and email. And so, being able to work with the team, initially, this wasn't something that I had, but I was able to create kind of a general link that I could say... and part of it too was me learning how better to optimize our on-site chat and things like that. But as soon as a customer types in size or measurements or anything like that, they're immediately met with options where they can view the size chart if they want. Because I have found that some people have an adverse reaction to taking a quiz of that nature, so, I do still give them the option to view the size chart if they want, but then they can also take... it's recommended to take our fit quiz, and I have a link to that. And that has helped tremendously. It's not like people have gone around that to say, "Hey, I took this quiz, but I still want to ask you your opinion," it really has cut down on a ton, which has helped me because I have 5000 other things that I need to do in addition to that. But that has helped a ton.

But I think, too, just in us instilling a level of trust within the customer, and then taking away the guesswork and them being told based on the information that this is the size that they should get, it gives them a sense of confidence. And it definitely has cut down on our amount of returns or exchanges. And I do see a direct correlation between the people who do use it and the people who don't, and how that relates to returns. So, that's why I have some ideas for you later that we'll get to as to how we can get those people through the flow.

Greg: That's awesome. Yeah. I mean, I think... I was speaking with Jake from Treet. He runs a sustainable resale platform for apparel. And I don't know if this is as much for swimwear, but we were talking about sustainability, just like in general, right? And one of the things that get left out of sustainability in a lot of cases is the cost of reverse logistics. And not only the cost to the brand but also just the cost to the environment, the packaging, the transportation, and everything else. So, it's funny because we're talking about, "Alright, what's like, the sustainability playbook that people can just jump into now?" Right? Because I think when we say the word 'sustainability,' we think about 5, 10 years down the road, all these very in-depth strategies for how we need to get there. But is that an area that you guys would lean into as well, from the sustainability side of things? Are you kind of starting to get into that? Because we're starting to see a lot of consumers. And I think client behaviors are changing based on companies being able to do that.

Taylor: Funny you mentioned that. We are kind of revamping as we speak. I moved all of our production to a factory in LA. So, we're going to be made stateside now, which is going to help a ton in that area using primarily sustainable fabrics. We always used compostable mailers. But we've found... I found compostable shipping labels, compostable bikini liners, recycled tags, and all that. So, we're really leaning into that. So, we're right on that trend.

Greg: What are some of the things where...? I mean, because you're going through this transition right now, what are some of the pieces of advice you can give to other brands that are looking to follow suit in that?

Taylor: I think even just from when I first started, there are a lot more resources out there. Because I think, too, it's really hard to weed through what is BS and what isn't because there's so much I think they're calling it greenwashing now. And it's really difficult. But there are some really amazing partners out there, especially on the packaging front. One that immediately comes to mind is called No Issue Co. They had seriously extended their product range from when I first started and have, outside of mailers, there's they do tags now. There's food-specific packaging. They do compostable garment bags and stuff like that. So, there are really amazing partners like them who also have a great blog that I like to read that has a lot of good sustainability tips. But I think it's really just the research, and it really does take a lot of time to pick through things and make sure that it aligns and makes sense for your business because it still can be kind of costly. But if it's something that you're working in and leaning into from a marketing perspective, I think it's important to make sure that you're doing basically what you're saying you're doing. Because I think...

Greg: Yeah.

Taylor: ... there probably are a lot of companies that are like, "Oh, we do this, and we plant a tree, and we whatever." And it's like, nowadays, you can't... I mean, never, but its customers are smart, and they're able to read through the BS.

Greg: Things that I hear are, one, do your research, right? And then, 2, watch out for, I call it, fraudsters, right? Like people that kind of sell you a bill of goods that are not really kind of living up to it. And I wonder, and this goes along probably with the whole tool and experience in that sense. But when you're trying to solve a problem on the site, are you leaning into Google searches or networks that you've built in communities? How do you generally go about saying, "I got this problem, and it's eating at me. I need to solve it. What do I do with that?"

Taylor: I think it's a bit of both. I am definitely a huge fan of just Google in general, Google searches, I generally plug everything into Google if I have a question. But if there are things that I'm having a hard time deciding between, or maybe it's like, an app to install, or something like that, I'll definitely tap into my network to say, "Hey, has anybody tried this? Does anybody have any tips on how to do X, Y, and Z? It's definitely a good bit of both, and both are generally helpful.

Greg: No, that's cool. I think that's, that's one of the things that we're starting to see is that those networks... kind of 2 things, right? You go look at other sites for what they're using. And if you respect that site and respect their business, you're going to... I'm going to rip that stack, right?

Taylor: Right.

Greg: And then the other side is you pick up the phone like, "Hey, how do you like this?"

Taylor: Yeah.

Greg: So, I think those are definitely some big things. Alright. So, at the end of it, I guess, one more question that I had about the business. But what are the things now that you're kind of in this process where the business is founded, it's running, it's moving, like it's getting to be that well-oiled machine, what are the things that are keeping you up at night, like the next set of problems that you really need to tackle?

Taylor: So, one of the things that's keeping me up at night currently is that we are... so, I think it's a 2-prong thing. So, for us, since we are so small, and we do have such a large size range, and I'm a dummy who can't seem to do less than like 2 to 3 prints or colorways for a collection, that's my own cross to bear, makes our lives more difficult, but a majority of our budgets for pretty much everything goes towards production and all that. And shooting the product, that's not cheap, all those kinds of things. So, it leaves very little room for, say, a marketing budget and things like that. We rely primarily on word of mouth. But with that being said, we are, in this revamp that we're doing in transition, we're also going to become more omnichannel, as opposed to strictly DTC. So, we are delving more into wholesale, which is its own beast animal. But we will be launching with Anthropologie this spring, which I'm super excited about.

Greg: Very cool.

‍Taylor: But acquiring other wholesale customers that can really help us grow the brand, get us in front of more customers, since we aren't doing a ton of marketing is something that is just making me... rattle my brain. But not a bad problem to have, but definitely one that is keeping me on my toes and up at night.

Greg: Makes sense. Makes sense. Are you starting to grow the team, or are you still trying to stay pretty lean for a little bit?

Taylor: Staying lean for a little bit. I definitely would like to bring on more help in the marketing department here soon. But for now, it's working as best as it can. But definitely want to add on a team member or 2 in the next year or so.

Greg: So cool. I remember when we started, both for Fit3D and WAIR, you have like 15 different hats as an entrepreneur, right?

Taylor: Right.

Greg: And then all of a sudden, you hire somebody, you take one hat off and give it to them. And you have all of this control and everything else that goes along with that, and you're like, you have to just remind yourself like, "I hired this person to do a better job than I can do. And they're going to focus on it full-time. I need to wash my hands a little bit, and let's see how they do it." It's an amazing stage as a company, and it's also like a really scary stage.

Taylor: For sure.

Greg: Well, Taylor, this is awesome. Thank you so much for joining us today. And like I said at the very beginning, I personally just love the journey that you've been on, and we're very proud to be a part of it. And anytime there are entrepreneurs out there, it's tough. So, just hats off, and I think that's really cool. And as we ended, I'd love to hear if you have any because I'm sure your time is very limited, but what are your favorite off-work activities? Like, what are the things that you do outside of the office in that sense?

Taylor: I love to decompress and shut my brain off by watching True Crime documentaries. That is my favorite pastime. I don't know why it is. And it's funny. I don't know if you've seen that meme going around, but it's like, the person who's wide awake and scared, and it's like me watching gory thriller movies. And then it's a person sleeping soundly, and it's me watching crime documentaries. And that's so me. I can't watch scary movies or anything, but I can watch True Crime documentaries. I don't understand. That doesn't make any sense. But...

Greg: I love that.

Taylor: That's what I like to do.

Greg: Is like right into the like, "How do I solve the mystery type thing?" Is it...

Taylor: Literally.

Greg: That's awesome. I love that. Well, Taylor, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate you being here. And yeah, we're just we're really excited to work with you. So, thank you for giving us the opportunity.

Taylor: Me too. And thank you so much for having me.

From the Runway to the Board Room: Owning a Size-Inclusive Clothing Label

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